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Post by Tornado on May 14, 2012 15:17:26 GMT -5
Pop is NOT a dirty word, and they are a great pop band like Pet Shop Boys, New Order, etc.The problem, let's say, "indie writers" have with this album is that they decided far in advance they couldn't like it. Garbage doesn't fit into the portrait they've painted of 2012. But now that they've released what is, on every level, their best work since 1998, they aren't sure how to deal with it, so they say, "uh, this is good, would have been nice in the 90s, but it's 2012, so here's 2.5 stars...." And then they go listen to some lo-fi band that sounds exactly like a cheap version of a 90s band. The hypocrisy is stunning. But it was made dirty by "artists" like lmfao, b.spears, l.g., etc. I don't want Garbage to be associated with these "artists".
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Post by ssjmarcus1990 on May 14, 2012 15:17:47 GMT -5
The two posts above are great and I totally agree. However, the one thing that is hitting me the more I listen to this (admittedly great) album, is really how little they have added to their sound (as some of the reviews are saying). Don't get me wrong, I love it, but it would have been good for them to have updated the template slightly. I'm thinking a "splicing" of their traditional sound with the more contemporary, electro-filth-pop that's been prevalent in the past year or so (I'm thinking Til The World Ends, Tik Tok, Heavy Metal Lover). These are sounds that would have really melded well with the Garbage staples and it would have been a great opportunity to combine the two. In fact, when I think about, Version 2.0 is closer to this than NYKOP. Ok now i'm imagining Heavy Metal Lover sang in the same style as Sugar, and i fucking love it.
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Post by luxavalanche on May 14, 2012 15:30:50 GMT -5
I think because they seem happy with this album, as do their fans, and for most part, 'critics,' there's a chance they'll get riskier on their next record again. The amount of progress they achieved between the debut and 2.0 was remarkable -- and they were lauded for it. They misfired by experimenting in every which way on BG, then dressing up as a rock band on BLM. This is them rediscovering what they do best. Now that they made the album people have wanted from them since 2001, they have maybe earned back the confidence/urge to experiment a little more next time. They clearly still have it in them. Anyway, I'm really happy with this record. If they quit now, I'd be sad but proud they went out with a bang. I honestly couldn't say that about the last two.
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Post by Tornado on May 14, 2012 15:38:05 GMT -5
The two posts above are great and I totally agree. However, the one thing that is hitting me the more I listen to this (admittedly great) album, is really how little they have added to their sound (as some of the reviews are saying). Don't get me wrong, I love it, but it would have been good for them to have updated the template slightly. I'm thinking a "splicing" of their traditional sound with the more contemporary, electro-filth-pop that's been prevalent in the past year or so ( I'm thinking Til The World Ends, Tik Tok, Heavy Metal Lover). These are sounds that would have really melded well with the Garbage staples and it would have been a great opportunity to combine the two. For God's sake, NO. This "electro-filth-pop" is just another fad. I hate when pop "artists" (or their producers) take elements or REAL electronic music and water them down for their own s****y songs. I like how Garbage kept their identity and didn't follow the current trends. NYKOP needed to be a return to form after their last 2 albums. I bet that after NYKOP they will experiment even more for their next album.
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Post by Hangin' With The Bichard on May 14, 2012 16:09:30 GMT -5
The two posts above are great and I totally agree. However, the one thing that is hitting me the more I listen to this (admittedly great) album, is really how little they have added to their sound (as some of the reviews are saying). Don't get me wrong, I love it, but it would have been good for them to have updated the template slightly. I'm thinking a "splicing" of their traditional sound with the more contemporary, electro-filth-pop that's been prevalent in the past year or so ( I'm thinking Til The World Ends, Tik Tok, Heavy Metal Lover). These are sounds that would have really melded well with the Garbage staples and it would have been a great opportunity to combine the two. For God's sake, NO. This "electro-filth-pop" is just another fad. I hate when pop "artists" (or their producers) take elements or REAL electronic music and water them down for their own s****y songs. I like how Garbage kept their identity and didn't follow the current trends. NYKOP needed to be a return to form after their last 2 albums. I bet that after NYKOP they will experiment even more for their next album. I hate to break it to you, but V2.0 is like the ULTIMATE electro-filth-pop record. How can that have escaped your notice?!
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Post by Tornado on May 14, 2012 16:40:21 GMT -5
For God's sake, NO. This "electro-filth-pop" is just another fad. I hate when pop "artists" (or their producers) take elements or REAL electronic music and water them down for their own s****y songs. I like how Garbage kept their identity and didn't follow the current trends. NYKOP needed to be a return to form after their last 2 albums. I bet that after NYKOP they will experiment even more for their next album. I hate to break it to you, but V2.0 is like the ULTIMATE electro-filth-pop record. How can that have escaped your notice?! Version 2.0 is Electro-rock. Nothing to do with Kesha, Spears and other "electro-filth-pop" artists. PS: Don't get me wrong. I like electropop music (with accent to electro), but made by great artists (Depeche Mode, Ladytron, Kraftwerk, Goldfrapp, Mesh, VNV Nation, etc), not by some forgettable "filthy" pop starlets...
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Post by Hangin' With The Bichard on May 14, 2012 16:46:07 GMT -5
There are guitars, yes, but that does not necessarily equal a rock record. Lady GaGa has employed the use of guitars on many of the tracks on Born This Way. Does that make these rock...?
Garbage are (and always have been) essentially a pop band shrouded in guitars. You can hear it in the hooks, read it in the song structures. It's nothing to be ashamed of or offended by! Pop comes in many different forms!
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Post by Tornado on May 14, 2012 16:54:49 GMT -5
OK, each with his opinion. But guitars are more present on any Garbage album than electronic sounds, so Garbage are rock. They have the occasional pop song (WIGU, CL etc) but most of the time they're rock.
Also on stage they have a vocalist, 2 guitarists, 1 bassist and a drummer. That sounds like rock to me.
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Post by Hangin' With The Bichard on May 14, 2012 17:02:47 GMT -5
I'll argue til the cows come home about guitars being more present on any Garbage song than electronica due to the heavyweight production...to the fore yes, but not more present. They're certainly genre benders but there's no disputing that even, say, Vow or Only Happy When It Rains are absolutely pop songs with guitar on them, just as Edge Of Glory is a pop song with guitar on it.
But as you say, horses for courses and all that!
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Post by luxavalanche on May 14, 2012 17:04:13 GMT -5
Take back the term! #proudlypop
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Post by Vow2cutUup on May 14, 2012 17:40:38 GMT -5
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Post by Vow2cutUup on May 14, 2012 19:54:27 GMT -5
I'll argue til the cows come home about guitars being more present on any Garbage song than electronica due to the heavyweight production...to the fore yes, but not more present. They're certainly genre benders but there's no disputing that even, say, Vow or Only Happy When It Rains are absolutely pop songs with guitar on them, just as Edge Of Glory is a pop song with guitar on it. But as you say, horses for courses and all that! While I respect your opinions, tastes and general aside that pop is interchangeable into any genre with a melody, Garbage are anything but pop. To me, pop is a short abbreviation for popular music, which could classify any band or artist with success. Disagreeably so, Garbage are a modern rock outfit. While they incorporate flourishes of pop grandeur, they also equally incorporate other genres which declassify the band as pop. They often incorporate electronic based sounds, they have before the technique was a "thing", or even...popular. They were the pioneer of the dirty-filth-"pop" sound. They incorporate industrial music (NIN famously), trip-hop (zero7), dreamscape/shoegaze (Cranberries, Mazzy Star), grunge (Nirvana, Smashing Pumpkins), arena rock (U2), goth... Most importantly, Garbage have always been about rock music. While pop music has made forays into the incorporation of the guitar, Garbage use the guitar while incorporating forays into pop/electronic sounds. Guitar usage in mainstream pop, is a more recent affair with Kelly Clarkson and P!nk really setting that standard and Lady Gaga only dipping into those sounds. Garbage songs are always structured for the guitar and are first and foremost modern/alternative rock songs. Whereas pop, until recently, was doing an RNB, hip hop, or teenybopper thing... Garbage bend the genres, their most pop album seems to be the most despised, coincidence?
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darkling1219
Sanitation Engineer
"Sour as a lemon. Please, wait at the window."
Posts: 182
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Post by darkling1219 on May 15, 2012 0:38:44 GMT -5
Rock or pop Looks like these crummy reviews have brought it down to 65 on metacritic.
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Post by luxavalanche on May 15, 2012 0:50:59 GMT -5
it will go back up. it's just a #
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darkling1219
Sanitation Engineer
"Sour as a lemon. Please, wait at the window."
Posts: 182
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Post by darkling1219 on May 15, 2012 7:57:44 GMT -5
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darkling1219
Sanitation Engineer
"Sour as a lemon. Please, wait at the window."
Posts: 182
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Post by darkling1219 on May 15, 2012 8:02:33 GMT -5
I like NME's critic's assumption that they could not get a record deal. It's been well quoted that they did not want one. And dwindling fanbase? Hardly. It's a pretty mean-spirited review.
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Post by glindathegood on May 15, 2012 9:32:39 GMT -5
I like NME's critic's assumption that they could not get a record deal. It's been well quoted that they did not want one. And dwindling fanbase? Hardly. It's a pretty mean-spirited review. I agree. The reason they didn't want a record deal which I believe Shirley said in an interview is that all new record deals now are 360 deals where you have to also give the record company a part of your touring and merchandising revenue as well as record sales. They didn't want to do that. I'm sure Garbage would do a deal if it was just for recording but those type of deals don't really exist anymore. As far as the pop debate, pop isn't really a genre in itself. Pop just means to me music that is melodic, accessible and written with a certain song structure. Pop can still have a rock element and guitars in it. Pop music can incorporate many different genres. There is dance leaning pop, R&B leaning pop, and rock leaning pop. Garbage to me is rock leaning pop.
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Post by Vow2cutUup on May 15, 2012 9:41:22 GMT -5
NME is a rubbish POS publication.
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Post by luxavalanche on May 15, 2012 9:47:00 GMT -5
The tool behind the NME review is 'Rick Martin' btw. Let him pay.
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Post by glindathegood on May 15, 2012 9:47:09 GMT -5
NME is a rubbish POS publication. It has some interesting stuff on it, but I don't always agree with their reviews. They can be kind of snobbish. They push the new latest hot thing all the time, they care more about what is trendy, then what is good. They also gave a horrible review 3/10 to the new Gossip record which I think is amazing.
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