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Post by tetherednchained on Aug 11, 2006 10:00:23 GMT -5
No, I won't reconsider. I don't believe in voting for criminals. I never will again. Your "culture" isn't mine. Your so-called "society" "civilization" and "country" were obtained in inhumane ways, and continue to run in inhumane ways. Until you stop killing yourselves and others, I will have no part in your barbarism. Sorry, but I will never reconsider. At least not until your politicians and your people reconsider your barbaric, inhumane, murderous and poisonous ways. How can you change anything for the better if you refuse to participate?
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Post by bdcold on Aug 11, 2006 12:29:17 GMT -5
Exactly.
The easy answer is to wash one's hands of the problem, take your toys, and go home.
But, as history has shown, going home doesn't really offer the protection one may think it does when the doors get knocked down in the middle of the night.
Our country has many evils but also has much good to offer. Unfortunately, under the evil Bush the world has seen only one side. That will begin to change this November.
After all, we once (and will again) elect those who believe
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Post by Jen on Aug 12, 2006 3:55:27 GMT -5
Choose to participate? In WHAT?
Your polluting the Earth? Participating in electing politicians who care only for themselves and their wallets, no matter what they say? Invading other countries and trying to change them into what you are? (Including your OWN country if you're from the USA?)
Why should I participate in THAT?
I have tried so damn hard my entire life to show people what their "progress" (yeah right) is doing to their Earth, their people, themselves... and what do I get?
"Vote! Vote!"'
But vote for whom? For the people who are DOING all of this? NO THANK YOU.
I will vote when someone worth voting for, WHO TRULY CARES runs for any type of office.
Until then, sorry.
What good has your country done? There are been SO MANY TIMES when individuals have come forth and said, "LOOK - THERE ARE WAYS THAT OUR LAND, OUR SYSTEM CAN ACTUALLY FREAKIN' WORK" and no one has taken the chance!
WHY?
Once again .. those who believe? Like WHO?
Anyway - I PARTICIPATE. Not voting for lying sons of bitches crooks doesn't mean I do NOT participate. That means I fucking PARTICIPATE, by refusing to allow, refusing to elect these lying ass crooks (not just talking about the current administration, talking about politicians, period) try to tell US what THEY think is right and good and what will WORK for our country...
if they have the magical plan that will omg work for us, THEN WHY ISN'T IT WORKING?
Why not change the system? Create a new government? Why keep up with the same government if it is clearly not working, and they keep on abusing their power, abusing us?
WHY SHOULD I VOTE FOR THESE ASSHOLES?
Propositions - I'll vote for that. Most definetely. But I won't vote for crooks.
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Post by Jen on Aug 12, 2006 3:58:55 GMT -5
"We have everything our people need. Too much of food, clothes, and houses why not let all have their fill and lie down in the ease and comfort God has given us? Why not? Because a few own everything-the masses own nothing. "
That's why I (and many many others_) have suggested going back to tribal laws. When MY country had tribal laws, the masses owned everything. Then people came from overseas, raped everything, stole everything including the land, murdered for the sake of owning a piece of land they just continue on poisoning, etc etc etc.... and what do you get?
"America."
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Post by Jen on Aug 12, 2006 4:11:36 GMT -5
Ooh I forgot -
change for the better..
First of all - I convered my car's tank to run solely on alcohol . That's better. (Note: All cars made in the US after the year 2000 are made to run on HALF gasoline and HALF alcohol, not just run solely on alcohol. Why do you suppose we haven't heard from anyone in government about this? Hmmm. money perhaps? And don't just blame Bush - why haven't the democrats said anything?) I hear that you can convert your tank thingy to run solely on vegetable oil -but I'm still looking into that) - That's better.
Second - I only use soaps/dishsoaps/etc that are biodegradable, natural, that will not poison the oceans (it all leads to the oceans). That's better.
Third - I live as naturally as I can possibly live - I wear clothes (most of them) that are made solely from hemp, handmade - no polluting factory made clothes. Better.
Fourth - When I use paper, I use paper made by my sister in law, who recycles paper. Anything made from paper she breaks down and keep reusing. That's better.
I'm sure I don't need to go on...
Don't talk to ME about doing things for the better.
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Post by Mr. Chris on Aug 12, 2006 21:23:55 GMT -5
just for you i ran the mercialogo all day. used a tank and a half to. 8 miles per gallon man that sucks.
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Post by Jen on Aug 13, 2006 2:36:30 GMT -5
What's the mercialogo?
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Post by Jen on Aug 14, 2006 1:15:22 GMT -5
My Political Beliefs: Pro-Gay Marriage Pro-Transsexual Marriage Pro-Heterosexual Marriage Pro-Polygamy Pro-Polyandy Pretty much, I actually follow "(Consenting) Love Is Never Wrong." You love more than one person? Then God bless you. Please live your life and be happy. Don't like kids? Too bad, they exist. Just don't have them then. *shrugs* GBLT and want to adopt? PLEASE. Children need love above all else. Yes, I do (in some way) agree that children need female and male influence, but either influence doesn't HAVE to be in a mother or father role. You can have two dads, and an aunt. The female doesn't have to be the mother. Same with two mothers and an uncle. Or grandparent. Godparent. Your two dad's best friend who's a woman, etc etc. I don't believe that public servants should be paid. For example - yes, I'm half Irish but I am also half native "american." I do not consider myself to be an "American", since I am not controlled (for lack of a better word) by the U.S. Government. When I say "Bush is not my president," he actually literally isn't. My "president" - tribal chairman - is Vincent Armenta. Although I am only part Chumash, (since my other nation is long gone - Munsee - the Munsees do not have a nation) and part Munsee, they don't care..... there are also many... caucasians? That are members of the tribe. Anyway. The "business committee" (our government) is its own nation. Just like many of you on this board are also living in the U.S., the UNITED STATES is your nation. I just happen to live here. It's a poor example, but think of the Vatican and Italy. Anyway. So my "president" (tribal chairman) is Armenta. The rest of our government's leaders DO NOT GET PAID. They are the definition of "public servants." We do not pay them to serve us. Armenta was a WELDER before he first got elected, even.... if that gives you any clue in how money doesn't play. So... yeah. I don't believe that public servants should get paid. I believe wholeheartedly in our (Chumash) casinos. That is how we support our nation. We also support YOUR (the U.S.'s) nation, by contributing to your economy. I'm not sure about other nations' casinos, but I do know about ours. We are taxed and all that to help your nation as well. I care deeply about the U.S., and wish to help you guyses as much as we/I can. If you don't mind, I'd like to take the time to say: I absolutely positively love that people originally (the settlers) wanted to come here. PLLLLEEEEAAAASE come here. The only problem I have.. is well.. look. Just look outside. You really think smog is more beautiful than clean air? Let's see... what else? Ahh, religion. All religion is, is an opinion on the world's beginnings, and the nature of humanity. Opinion. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, on how they think we all began, whether you solely believe in the scientific ideas (Big Bang Theory, etc), solely in theological explanations, or a mix of both. (That would be me Everyone has a right to believe what they want. Hatred of an opinion is absurd, because opinion is neither right nor wrong. How can you hate something which is just .. there? People's actions, while blaming their actions on their beliefs, I understand if you hate THAT. Completely understand. But opinion itself? Just because it's not your own? Quite judgmental and ignorant. You don't like church, temple, whatever? Fine then! Don't participate! It's not that hard not to enter a doorway I STRONGLY believe in trying to save our environment. Us humans have made such a mess of things... we are trying to help clean ourselves up, but obviously the little actions that we are currently ding aren't good enough. We need a radical change. Change isn't always pretty or fun, but what needs to be done should be done. Sure, you don't want to part with the quick job factories do, but then again.. would you want to part with Earth? Because that's just gonna happen if all this shit continues. We'd be forced to try to live on other planets (if that's even possible), and then what next? Destroy another? Why hurt ourselves and others continuously because of our own selfishness and greed? It's ridiculous. Oooooooh.. the US taxes. Okay. Here's the thing. Some taxes - help others, and I completely agree with them. However, many taxes are absolutely ridiculous (that old California car tax was stupid).... so... we should start all over. I don't see how things would work if they're ALREADY screwed up. Starting over is the best, I think. Voting on laws. Dude - the CIVILIANS should be the ones to vote on the issues. Not anyone else. how could a handle of people truly know what's best of us or what we want? The best way to LISTEN to what we want, is to let US vote on the issues. Then enfore the laws/issues/whatever. Example (and it works!) With the Chumash "business committee.." they do not vote on the law and then it gets passed. The members (civilians) vote. on. every. issue. WE pass the laws. Kind of like the state propisitions, but we are not limited to just those. We have full power in passing the laws and all. THAT is a government ruled by its people. What other thing should I cover? What am I missing?
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Post by bdcold on Aug 14, 2006 13:54:02 GMT -5
Clearly an issue of which you have devoted some serious study.
It’s true that the very vast majority of Americans pollute the earth in one way or another by their very presence. We can only do what each can to minimize our negative impact on the environment.
Again, we have not always elected only politicians that care only for themselves. I must believe that we can do that again. Most all people are selfish in that they want what is best for themselves or their family. And since politicians are people (I know, I know some would argue otherwise) that leaves us an unbalanced field from which to choose. To me, what is most important is to focus on those politicians that in seeking what is best for their own selves also, even if by default, help the vast majority of people at the same time. A politician in the past that voted to enact the 8 hour work day may have done so for some personal reason, i.e. family member owned a labor employment agency which could naturally gain by reducing the mandated work day (without overtime) to 8 hours and thus gain in the ability to place new employees at existing companies and thereby enrich themselves. Yet, I would still favor that position over the politician who sought to deny such a workday reduction as the overall benefit to the working class with passage of the law would far outweigh concern over his particular personal advantage. I would certainly prefer to have a politician vote for such a reduction for purposes which would only benefit society but I will also count the votes of those whom do not.
Having been born and raised in the South I do have some idea of our land being invaded just as our ancestors invaded from the east to displace the natives living there originally. Invasion and occupation are wounds upon which it is difficult for anyone to accept or forgive. The US invasion of Iraq is reprehensible and to me is a good reason why all should vote. I believe it is clear to most that such an invasion would never have occurred if the Fascist Five of the Supreme Court had not committed treason by anointing GWB as president in 2000. Without such illegality we would never have had the invasion of Iraq. Therefore, if more people had voted against the Republican ticket a travesty for our country and the world could have been avoided.
As far as creating a new government I'm all on board and believe that if no change is made shortly it will come about, most likely through violent means given the prohibition against rebellion under federal law.
An irony in in our country is that ours, a country founded on violent rebellion makes it a felony to withdraw or aggitate for governmental change in the same manner. Just the written thought advocating for such change could lead to lengthy prison terms.
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Post by bdcold on Aug 14, 2006 14:06:59 GMT -5
Certainly can not refute the experiences you describe. Unfortunately, "America" is no longer a tribe of people but a mass of humanity that does not think of each other as brothers and sisters but rather as targets of opportunity so I find it difficult to envision a successful implementation of tribal law under our mores of today.
I do agree with the masses owning the fruits of their labor and as a continuation of my quote above would give you the "rest of the story" as advocated originally by Huey Long and updated by myself....
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Post by bdcold on Aug 14, 2006 16:55:26 GMT -5
Great post and I concur on much of what you state. You are fortunate enough to live in a society that allows direct democracy to function instead of the representative democracy we have in the USA so your position on voting makes much more sense to me now. You have been priviliged to have a direct voice in deciding the matters before your nation rather than having to rely on someone else (and their own motivations).
I certainly wish we could do the same.
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Post by tetherednchained on Aug 14, 2006 21:56:16 GMT -5
In all fairness bdcold, do you have any idea how much these people donate to charities?
I believe in a capitalist society.
I believe that people that work their asses off or come up with a great idea are entitled to have everything that hard work has given them. I believe that makes them a good person. Working hard to accomplish a goal is a good thing.
What makes a great person is sharing what they have (freely, without being forced by the government) to help the less fortunate.
I would rather give more money through the charity of my choice than have a government that is full of lying crooks (Democrats and Republicans) and a government full of red tape make the choice for me.
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Post by bdcold on Aug 15, 2006 11:15:16 GMT -5
I also believe in capitalism, just not un-fettered capitalism.
Capitalism is amoral and should be regulated to prevent the tyranny of the wealthy as unrestricted capital does attract capital.
The donations of the uber-rich are small compared to their wealth. In all, the Forbes 400 list of wealthiest Americans have a net worth of $1.13 trillion dollars with a charitable giving amount of $38 billion or about 3% of their net worth.
A Republican said it best when Teddy Roosevelt stated:
And given your dislike for politicians you should like Teddy's quote:
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Post by Jen on Aug 15, 2006 17:48:53 GMT -5
In all fairness bdcold, do you have any idea how much these people donate to charities? I believe in a capitalist society. I believe that people that work their asses off or come up with a great idea are entitled to have everything that hard work has given them. I believe that makes them a good person. Working hard to accomplish a goal is a good thing. What makes a great person is sharing what they have (freely, without being forced by the government) to help the less fortunate. I would rather give more money through the charity of my choice than have a government that is full of lying crooks (Democrats and Republicans) and a government full of red tape make the choice for me. TETHEREDNCHAINED! I could kiss you We need a balance. Work hard for your money, buy what you will. Own. Own. Own. & I do agree to give from your heart, rather than give because of duty. But it can only go so far. Some things should be kept for all to share. Food, warm garments (fashiony type stuff you can keep to yourself lol), water (well that's everywhere... not many CLEAN water, but we can try to change that), stuff like that. You want an iPod? Work for it yourself.. you know? Food.. brocolli that grows in the ground, corn, stuff like that - shouldn't be kept locked up like it has for so long (well some people eat for free but they do it themselves but whatev)... why do we need supermarkets? Sure, you can keep things fresher longer.. but if you have crops.. and everyone owns those crops together (farm style stuffs) then dude... you hungry? Go pick a cob ! Easy as that. I'll never understand why we ALL .. every last one of us.. just says "okay well now it's my half an hour of corn picking" and then presto - you, and everyone else who puts in their half hour (imagine if everyone does it - you'd barely need to work for your food!) It beats 40 hours to buy a fucking hot pocket lol! (well okay and a house.. and whatev.. but yeah). Dude.. I need to write a book lol.
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Post by Jen on Aug 15, 2006 18:07:49 GMT -5
Great post and I concur on much of what you state. You are fortunate enough to live in a society that allows direct democracy to function instead of the representative democracy we have in the USA so your position on voting makes much more sense to me now. You have been priviliged to have a direct voice in deciding the matters before your nation rather than having to rely on someone else (and their own motivations). I certainly wish we could do the same. THANKS!!!! You really have no idea how I hope and pray and wish and bleed and sweat and other excrements and just wish beyond all wishing that the just everyone in the US (the world even!) .. not "be like us" (that's like saying OMG WE'RE BETTER THAN YOU when no one is).. but .. just come share the love The oral history goes (who knows if it's true? It's a nice story anyway regardless) .. that when the settlers first arrived, the people (all tribes, or most of them, can't speak for everyone lol) were overjoyed! Well the people were also like "OMG! Who are these strange looking people!?" And they thought they were SO cool. But then there was miscommunication (the way we see it, not like OMG MURDER AWAY!) and all that and then things got crazy. One thing I don't understand is when people say "oh who wants to go back to the 14, 15, 1500s??" and then when I scream 'I DO I DO I DO I DO!" people look at me weird Then I have to remember that different cultures have different progressions. I feel like with this whole thing that it's like a lover I had that was so amazing and perfect and then all of a sudden s/he leaves for no reason, just to see me cry. The lover's still around.. the lover still can say "look I'm sorry" but is too stubborn.... and in time says "you know what? I made a mistake," but feels as though they screwed up too bad and the mistakes have gone too far they feel as if there's no way out.. but as everyone knows with humans/lovers/friends, OF COURSE you can go back, but it takes work. It's not going to be easy, and it's not going to be pretty, but as they say in AlAnon: "It works IF YOU WORK IT!" (my SIL goes, not me lol) I apologize to you (and everyone else) if I seemed like a madwoman but it absolutely kills me and chinese water tortures me inside and outside and every which way, and sometimes I just want to slap people silly and say "Yo! You're being (not individually, societally, governmentally, politically) a total (fill in the blank)!" but more like in a best friend type of way. By no means am I perfect either. FAAAAAAAAAAAAR from it. Sometimes I think "If only I can overthrow the government and become the Empress and make people do shit, then everything will be good again!" (No one let me, no matter what I say lol) It's human nature, and animal nature but we've evolved in such a way that we CAN stop all of it. Who knows when? But we have the ability too. We just need to go to Stubbornity Cessation Classes and get over ourselves.... Love, me *standing on the side of the road, trash by my feet, single tear drops from my eye* P.s. I still say the Bushmen in Africa have got it the best, with their cute tushies out and their boobies flappin' in the wind all sexy like (their society too)
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Post by Jen on Aug 15, 2006 18:14:12 GMT -5
I also believe in capitalism, just not un-fettered capitalism. Capitalism is amoral and should be regulated to prevent the tyranny of the wealthy as unrestricted capital does attract capital. The donations of the uber-rich are small compared to their wealth. In all, the Forbes 400 list of wealthiest Americans have a net worth of $1.13 trillion dollars with a charitable giving amount of $38 billion or about 3% of their net worth. A Republican said it best when Teddy Roosevelt stated: And given your dislike for politicians you should like Teddy's quote: What he said (bdcold) and what he said again (teddddddy) I seriously need to read his (new) biography.. have you? Is it any good? Or another biography? Does anyone know about George Harrison's charitableness? I know he was considered (and still is?) a philanthropist, but I don't know to what extent... I do know that his music is charitable to the extent that he should be considered for sainthood
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Post by Jen on Aug 15, 2006 18:47:59 GMT -5
DAMNIT I thought of more political topics but I don't remember now! Damn me and my mammories *thinking* Ah. abortion. Now..I think I've said it already somewhere else on here... but I'll say it again. My dad is an ob/gyn (well retired) and I worked with him, and I've assisted in abortion. It's not a pretty thing, and I'm not like PRO abortion.. like "everyone should have one!!!!!" but if you need one, then what do I care? My dad is not "anti" but rather, anti the abortion itself (hard to explain, he's not anti choice at all or anti woman).. the procedure? The invasiveness. Anyway. But he believes (and so do I) that it should be kept safe and legal for those who DO feel it's best for them. It's not for me, but I am in no way against it for anyone who wants it. Does this make sense? "Pro-choice" if that term is used strictly FOR abortion, but for "no one can tell me I can't do what I want" and so on and forcing someone is a different sort of pro-choice (geting to that). Well I can't ever have one, because I can't have any more children, so that's why I can freely say "it's not for me" and I wouldn't ever have one. If you call me up and say (happened) "oh Jen can you please go with me and hold my hand?" OH YES I will. I'd be honored you thought of me to help you. If you ask me what you think you should do (second doubts I guess) the only thing I'd say is "let's look at yoru life and see the pros and cons" and just leave out any personal opinions, because that doesn't REALLY help anything, you know? So that's that for that. So.. for doing what you want with your body: PLEASE. As long as it doesn't hurt anyone else, what do I care? Who knows what I might think (I've been to Venice Beach, nothing shocks me LOL!), but why should anyone care anyway? If you want to saw off your leg and surgically place it on your head I might say "um... that's kinda... weird.." but then we'd just go see a movie and eat at Ruby's Diner. I'd stare and ask if I can touch it, lol "CAN I TOUCH IT? Can you move it?" LOL So what do I care? Just don't kick anyone with your head-leg, k? Okay. Piercing stuff. Who cares? Tattoos: Who cares? Just please make sure you go to a nice healthy clean place, because I'd cry if you got hurt or God forbid a disease or something. I mean, that's common sense anyway. But yeah. Same with the piercing thing. Now.. for piercing your child's ears.. there's two ways to go. I do understand that you just get it done and over with, but at the same time, I think maybe it's best if you let the child decide, you know? My mom decided for me, and I can't stand it, lol. I never liked to wear earrings, and I still don't like it. If she would have asked me, I probably would've said no. But anyway. It's there and I'm not dead, so whatev. It's a tricky situation, so I'm not ENTIRELY sure on where I am with this one yet. What do you think? Adoption: YEY! Ideally it's a wonderful beautiful thing. I'm adopted myself (when I talk about "my mom and dad" I refer to my adoptive parents), and I didn't know my biological family until a few years ago. Well I knew ABOUT them, but I didn't KNOW them. I know them now and I love them very much. Everyone gets along and it's all honky dory. My mother is still alive (she's Irish), and my father isn't (Chumash/Munsee).. he died when i was 4. I already knew about it though, so it's not like a huge surprise. I get sad from time to time, but it's all right It's really neat to see now the different ways I do things that I can finally see in my biological family, and looks and all. I have my father's body, his face shape, and his hair (not the color though), but as for shade and the fill in the lines type of thing, I'm SO my mother. So.. all my life I thought.. why do I do this? and this? and now I can see and it's totally cool. Okay I am now SO OFF the point. (really quick my daughter has his eyes and his nose and it makes me cry lol). So yeah. Adoption is wonderful. Of course there are crap stories but not everything in this world is perfect. But that doesn't mean it can't go well for others. Feminism - I'm a feminist for sure. What feminism actually is. A lot of times it gets a bad rap, and all that shit I am so far from. So yeah. I prefer "egalitarian" but I'm a feminist And might I add: With the name change with marriage thing: who cares? If you want to, great, if you don't, great too. In my own opinion, if you want your names to be equal, then hyphenate, lol! I prefer my husband's last name so i took it. That's all. The wonderful sexy man that he is asked me what I wanted to do BEFORE we got married. He said: "Do you want to change it or no? Because if you do, then we should look up how to do it." LOL, god i love him. so it's really a personal decision. Man, woman, who cares. If you want to change it, then do it! Look at Richard from Rammstein. He was Richard Kruspe and after he got married he took on his wife's last name and now he's Richard Kruspe-Bernstein, so yeah. He's really hot too. Animals - I don't believe in testing, I don't believe in having sex with them unless they can verbally say "OMG YES DO IT TO ME" (then I wouldn't care), I don't believe in riding them (I'm crazy I know.. but I figure if they wanted your crusty ass on their back they'd let you know), I don't believe in rodeos, I don't believe in bullfighting, etc. If you do those or if you like those, well.. I don't hate you and I don't think you're bad, I'm just against those. That's all I wasn't always a vegetarian but I now am. My husband isn't and my daughter isn't (well hopefully she will be ha!) and I don't think I could go vegan, but who knows what the future says? If you're not a vegetarian, well whatever then. Childfree - Dude, if you don't want kids, then don't have them. If others bitch to you about not wanting, then just ignore them. Everyone is opinionated and sure, you COULD change their minds but it's not always gonna happen. So just do what makes you feel right, and that's all. If no one else likes it, tough for them. (and for others, if you want kids, then please be my guest. Just raise them well with love and respect and of course, to respect others Child abuse/Elderly abuse / Spousal / Etc: Just plain wrong. I don't think I need to elaborate. Sex - go ahead and fuck! all i ask is that you please be careful for yourself and others because there are diseases and whatnot out there, and the least I want for anyone is to get those. Also, please realize that when you have sex with someone, it's not "well it's my body!" anymore, it's affecting someone else too. So please be safe Oh yeah, and please make it resonsibly consenting What else? See.. watch. I'll think of something at 4 am when I'm too lazy to get up. Thoughts?
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Post by Volk on Aug 17, 2006 20:24:04 GMT -5
when evolution is outlawed, only outlaws will evolve.
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Post by Jen on Aug 18, 2006 0:34:46 GMT -5
Good one Actually I think it's true. I really do think we're stunting our growth/evolvements we could've been superheroes by now
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Post by bdcold on Sept 5, 2006 13:28:22 GMT -5
Have You Had Enough? www.youtube.com/watch?v=X33KOkLRNA4Keith O smacks Rummy [ftp]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5eOvaWKY3g[/ftp] Nexus of Terror and Politics [ftp]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30ligvuLKCs[/ftp]
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