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Post by homeostasis on May 29, 2012 20:51:55 GMT -5
^ I appreciate that you're not jumping down my throat like the other two. Despite the assertions alin and garbagemty keep making, I'm not on Facebook, or Twitter, or Amazon. I'm here and on Wikipedia - obviously - and my username on Youtube is "Smalltalker20", if you want to look up the 2 comments I have made there; one on the Sugar mini-film and another on the BV on drums video, where I commented something along the lines of "Why doesn't it sound this good on the album?!". A couple of people here want to make-believe that all of the commenting everywhere has been from the same person, because perhaps it's easier to rubbish and discard the whole thing that way. But I assure you, it's not all me.
But it's hard to answer a question like, "What would you like to see come of this?" There is nothing to get out of any of this. It is the way it is. Would I like Garbage to use another mastering studio for their next release? Hell yes. But Shirl's comments on Twitter don't exactly fill me with joy. I'd been a fan since 1999. I've purchased every album and single the band have ever released. But I think I'm done, to be honest. It's hard not to feel like they just don't give a shit at this point. Fan after fan comments about it on Twitter, and they dismiss it. It seems to me like they care more about their relationship with Lazar than they do about the fans who've commented about the mastering. And there's only one road for the band to head down now. And they won't be travelling down that road on my dime any longer, I'm afraid.
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Post by section109 on May 29, 2012 21:55:38 GMT -5
I don't know why someone would think Garbage doesn't give a shit, considering they are known for being pretty damn particular about the music. If they don't have a problem with it, you need to accept it's the artist's decision and move on.
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Post by tiger30 on May 30, 2012 0:29:14 GMT -5
It more or less comes down to format really. On iTunes they have to master it loud due to the sound quality lost in the compression process and the fact that it will most likely be heard through cheap ear buds or laptop speakers. The CD is not mastered nearly as loud as the iTunes version for the reason that you are playing back the full resolution WAV or AIFF file, not an approximation of the original file.
That right there is the reason I'm still all for a physical format.
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Post by garbagemty on May 30, 2012 18:33:26 GMT -5
he also lost the battle in wikipedia, he's not allowed to post about that anymore. You're confusing me with yourself. "You have been blocked for 72 hours." You're one step away from being banned from ever editing any page on the site again. Good luck with that. And neither of the two guys who commented about it on Twitter so far are me or anyone I know or anyone I have contact with. I don't have a Twitter a/c, and I don't plan on having one any time soon. Same goes for Facebook. And I appreciate the posts from other people on this page of the topic. If anything, this is part of the solution, right here: a band's fans even being aware of the issue. Some of you may still find it all a bit tedious, because a lot of you can apparently listen to album without any problem. But, it's obvious to me that right now Garbage is heading down the same road as Metallica and Death Magnetic. Emily Lazar is dragging them down that road without the band even being aware of it, apparently. And when that happens... you'll all be feeling the same way I do now. Every one of us would be better off it never getting to that stage. I don't care if I was banned 72 hours, your shit is not in wikipedia anymore, that's what made me happy. ;D
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Post by aztalanturf on May 30, 2012 18:52:28 GMT -5
Thanks for the reply, homeostasis. To be fair, one of Shirley's replies on Twitter was responding to a pretty snarky comment: Full exchange: I probably wouldn't respond well to that sort of comment about the work I just released (and put my heart and soul into), either. The other comment was replying to someone who asked why the YT videos sound better than the album and she was much less snarky. The original tweeter seems to have either locked the account or deleted all tweets, so I don't have the original comment, but here's the reply: @ryanmancuso maybe you have better ears than butch vig? We think the cd sounds amazeballs! So I wouldn't give up just yet. I would like to know more about the whole "Mastered for iTunes" thing in general and specifically Garbage's take on it. I did read the iTunes "spec" document and did some reading on audio engineer type sites. If I get the opportunity to interview the band, I will ask.
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Post by garbagemty on May 30, 2012 18:59:22 GMT -5
good for Shirley, If I were her I would also kick the ass of everyone who annoyingly questions the process of my work.
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Post by Tornado on May 31, 2012 8:02:26 GMT -5
good for Shirley, If I were her I would also kick the ass of everyone who annoyingly questions the process of my work. Exactly! Don't like it? Listen to something else. The world is full of music and nobody force anyone to listen to Garbage. There's a reason why they titled their album "Not Your Kind of People"...
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Post by ALTERNAT1VE on Jun 5, 2012 5:48:54 GMT -5
To be honest I'm so fed up with trolls and negativity. Maybe I haven't paid so much attention during past eras but since NYKOP release date I definitely noticed a few people on this board who are constantly complaining about everything. Nothing really makes them happy - mastering, chart positions, lyrics, singles released, etc.) I understand everyone has their own opinion but I swear there are a few people who have negative attitude towards EVERYTHING (not that my attitude in this post is very positive ). /end of rant
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Post by Tornado on Jun 5, 2012 5:57:38 GMT -5
To be honest I'm so fed up with trolls and negativity. Maybe I haven't paid so much attention during past eras but since NYKOP release date I definitely noticed a few people on this board who are constantly complaining about everything. Nothing really makes them happy - mastering, chart positions, lyrics, singles released, etc.) I understand everyone has their own opinion but I swear there are a few people who have negative attitude towards EVERYTHING (not that my attitude in this post is very positive ). /end of rant He called himself a fan but actually he act like a hater. Good words ALTERNAT1VE.
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Post by Hangin' With The Bichard on Jun 5, 2012 6:02:47 GMT -5
good for Shirley, If I were her I would also kick the ass of everyone who annoyingly questions the process of my work. Exactly! Don't like it? Listen to something else. The world is full of music and nobody force anyone to listen to Garbage. There's a reason why they titled their album "Not Your Kind of People"... Jesus, it's like being in a world of Stepford Fans! Can't you guys try and be a little more objective instead of taking all this so personally? Perhaps those who are criticising the sound quality of the album are going about it the wrong way, but surely they're entitled to their opinions? And as long-term music fans, of course they have a right to make these opinions heard! If you see somthing you once loved (allegedly) declining in quality, it's going to piss you off isn't it? Fans buy the music, so surely it's best Garbage and other bands listen to what the fans want, at least to some degree? We're not talking about artistic integrity here. The audiophiles aren't saying that the direction the band are taking is shit, or that their songwriting or even production has gotten worse. They're saying that a third party is affecting their work negatively through a totally digital process. It has nothing to do with "art".
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Post by homeostasis on Jun 6, 2012 16:01:18 GMT -5
The audiophiles aren't saying that the direction the band are taking is shit, or that their songwriting or even production has gotten worse. They're saying that a third party is affecting their work negatively through a totally digital process. It has nothing to do with "art". Thank you. This has little to do with Garbage and the work they did in the studio. This is purely the work of a notorious mastering engineer. Waveforms never need to look like that. Here's a fairly recent song from Trespassers William. And here's the waveform. It's mastered at early 1980's levels. That still doesn't make the guitar that comes roaring along at the 3:55-mark from being any less effective. In fact, it makes it even better, because you're almost encouraged to play it at full volume, something I certainly could never do with NYKOP. That's my major problem with this. I know it's an album I could simply adore, but I feel precluded from doing so. This isn't needless bitching. I simply can't listen to the damn thing the way it is. My ears are sensitive to this sort of stuff, apparently. NYKOP gives me a headache every time. And I assure you all, I was a major fan once upon a time. I have several different copies of the first 3 albums, vinyl's, Aus and Jap editions of G and V2.0. Then I have BLM, AG, plus every single and soundtrack they've ever released that had an exclusive b-side or non-album track on it. And yes, that even includes the 3 SYM UK singles. A simple challenge to anyone who's reading this: listen to a few songs from Garbage's first album with headphones at full volume, or even as loud as you're comfortable with. I don't care what your Equaliser settings are like. Don't bother with your VPT or DSEE - if you even know what they are - just play it. Then, with the exact same settings and at the same volume, begin playing NYKOP. I'm not gonna tell you what to listen for or what to expect. Just... listen.
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Post by Tornado on Jun 6, 2012 16:58:33 GMT -5
Because this album wasn't designed for your sensible ears, that's why. They're a rock group after all. BTW anyone pointed a gun in your face and forced you to listen to NYKOP?
And now you're a hater. You tried to post your Loudness Crap on Wikipedia and now a terrible Clash review. Not cool.
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Post by homeostasis on Jun 6, 2012 17:38:34 GMT -5
^ Either you have serious problems comprehending English, or you have self-inflicted multi-lingual dyslexia. You don't contribute to any discussion civilly, you simply take minuscule quotes, still manage to misinterpret their content, and then spit out two-line derisions. You don't even try. It's like talking to a brick wall at this point. And, by the way, a lot of the accusations you levied against me in the former half of this topic now seem pretty ironic, considering your actions now at Wikipedia. It's painfully obvious that you're using a site like hidemyass.com to use a multitude of different IP addresses to undo a variety of edits from various other people. This is youAnd this is youAnd this is youThis is you too (you really didn't even try to conceal your identity with this one. No-one else would even say something like that.) And it goes on and on and onLook at the comments. They're all pretty similar. Strange, baseless accusations, like accusing multiple users of being the writer of the Clash review, or somehow working for Clash in some fashion, of only including the review as a means of some sort of free advertising for the company. And that's clearly you all over the comments section of the Clash review too. You're everywhere - being rude and throwing insults to everyone who you disagree with. It's almost scary how easily you can snap at someone. Never mind my "loudness crap" at Wikipedia, you seem to be everywhere, being hateful and thereby spreading the message that Garbage fans are all hate-filled. That would be a hell of a lot more off-putting to any potential new fan than anything about poor mastering. By the way, I've never given a hairy rats behind about that Clash review being in the infobox. The content is still there for all to see [which, now I've pointed out here, will surely be deleted by some mysterious anonymous IP within a moment of you reading this message]. All I've been doing is luring you out and logging all your anonymous activity. Bye bye, pizza face!
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Post by Tornado on Jun 6, 2012 17:57:37 GMT -5
There are other anonymous users that reverted that crap. I'm glad that some people with common sense from Wikipedia shut your mouth about your Loudness War. I hope that they will ban you as soon as possible.
After all, you're a just a troll. You didn't contribute with anything for Garbage community, except useless whining.
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Post by homeostasis on Jun 6, 2012 18:13:11 GMT -5
There are other anonymous users that reverted your crap. At least I'm honest about what I've done. That's something else we differ on. Liar. It's a Rat Trap! And you've been... CAUGHT!
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Post by Hampton2121 on Jun 7, 2012 11:28:14 GMT -5
A simple challenge to anyone who's reading this: listen to a few songs from Garbage's first album with headphones at full volume, or even as loud as you're comfortable with. I don't care what your Equaliser settings are like. Don't bother with your VPT or DSEE - if you even know what they are - just play it. Then, with the exact same settings and at the same volume, begin playing NYKOP. I'm not gonna tell you what to listen for or what to expect. Just... listen. I've been reading this thread with interest and decided to try that out. Wow. Regardless of your stance on the issue--I'm not sure that I even have one--it's really interesting to listen to the difference.
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Post by acereject on Jun 7, 2012 13:09:04 GMT -5
Here's a suggestion to shut everyone up: buy the vinyl and rip it to your computer. It won't be mastered with so much compression as that just knocks the needles out the grooves.
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Post by homeostasis on Jun 8, 2012 20:34:01 GMT -5
Here's a suggestion to shut everyone up: buy the vinyl and rip it to your computer. It won't be mastered with so much compression as that just knocks the needles out the grooves. That's a common misconception. While standard heavyweight 180g vinyl's do require their mastering levels be taken down by at least 10dB, they're still the same basic master as used on CD. So in a case such as this, it will still sound more or less the same, only quieter. The vocal on the intro of Big Bright World will still sound tinny, the guitar on the chorus of Blood For Poppies will still sound abrasive and full of static. So unless anyone here can say otherwise, I'll save my £20. And, by the way, "ripping" a vinyl to your computer isn't as easy as you make it sound. If you want it to sound good, that requires at least £300 on hardware. And Alin - or 'deep-blue' as he's known in places - must be getting pretty frustrated now that his actions have resulted in the Not Your Kind of People article at Wikipedia being protected from non-registered user edits. Now he's all over the Drowned In Sound forums, harassing the reviewer who gave the record 5 out of 10. The guy is an absolute turkey.
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Post by garbagefiend on Jun 9, 2012 2:47:34 GMT -5
I'm not an expert, or an audiophile and I still really enjoy the album but I do notice a wee bit of weirdness in the sound when listening through my headphones. I change the EQ to rock for NYKOP, and it sounds pretty good. To me. It doesn't ruin the experience...for me. One of my other favourite albums 'Songs for the Deaf' is a noted example on the Loudness War page - I can't say I've ever noticed or been bothered by it, but again in retrospect there are some moments that were kinda loud. If it's just TOO much for you handle on your ears though, could you not just enjoy it through your stereo?
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Post by Hangin' With The Bichard on Jun 9, 2012 6:41:22 GMT -5
Bloody hell Alin. You really are totally incapable of of rational, balanced argument when it comes to Garbage aren't you?
Isn't it time this thread was locked?
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