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Post by lasirius on May 25, 2012 21:11:20 GMT -5
This guy keeps commenting about it on Twitter, even got a response from them. twitter.com/#!/ryanmancuso
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Post by badboyfriend on May 25, 2012 21:25:17 GMT -5
He's using this thread as a reference on Wikipedia now, lol
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Post by pdn on May 25, 2012 22:39:10 GMT -5
Both sides of the argument need to grow up, as noted by one side calling Emily a "vile c-nt" and the other replying that those people are "pretentious" or "audiophile bitches."
The mastering on this record leaves much to be desired. Excessive compression has left some great moments muddled. Others have noticed it. I've noticed it.
Almost 20 years later, I can pick out my original 'Garbage' CD and discover some new sample that I haven't noticed before. It won't be that way with 'Not Your Kind of People,' and that leaves me disappointed. If that makes me pretentious or an "audiophile bitch,' then I'll wear that badge with pride.
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Post by Lick The Pavement on May 25, 2012 23:14:18 GMT -5
Why do you people even care? I enjoy the songs. No need to bicker about petty things. It's an album that might not have been made for godsakes, at least be somewhat thankful they even came out with it.
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Post by garbagemty on May 26, 2012 3:31:43 GMT -5
He's using this thread as a reference on Wikipedia now, lol thank you! I just deleted that shit from Wikipedia, lol
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Post by badboyfriend on May 26, 2012 4:02:02 GMT -5
He's using this thread as a reference on Wikipedia now, lol thank you! I just deleted that shit from Wikipedia, lol Someone marked your revision of the page as Vandalism and undid it
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Post by badboyfriend on May 26, 2012 4:03:55 GMT -5
Both sides of the argument need to grow up, as noted by one side calling Emily a "vile c-nt" and the other replying that those people are "pretentious" or "audiophile bitches." The mastering on this record leaves much to be desired. Excessive compression has left some great moments muddled. Others have noticed it. I've noticed it. Almost 20 years later, I can pick out my original 'Garbage' CD and discover some new sample that I haven't noticed before. It won't be that way with 'Not Your Kind of People,' and that leaves me disappointed. If that makes me pretentious or an "audiophile bitch,' then I'll wear that badge with pride. I truly believe that the first side is just one guy. I'm seriously sure it is. As for NYKOP, yes it's loud. Some bits are a bit too loud, but it's not god awful and it doesn't deserve to be called absolute shit or Emily Lazer doesn't need to called a vile cu_t' or anything.
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Post by homeostasis on May 26, 2012 19:32:13 GMT -5
Why do you people even care? I enjoy the songs. No need to bicker about petty things. That's a good point. You don't care about the quality of the mastering but a lot of other people clearly do. You find such matters trivial and to be of nit-picking scope, while others get so passionate about the issue that they've vowed to not purchase the next album if they see that Emily Lazar was involved in its mastering. But you don't care either way. So, surely, as actual fans, we should now make our judgements heard in such droves that the band finally listens to our requests for once again decently mastered Garbage albums. What would the mastering of the next LP matter to you? You don't give a toss either way. Others differ. People do that. And, as fans, a band does owe us a certain amount of decency in return for the millions of dollars we've provided to them. We've purchased millions of their records and concert tickets and thus provided them with a lifestyle they would have never received otherwise. That much is obviousness. It has always been a symbiotic relationship. One cannot exist without the other, therefore mutual respect is a necessity. A brick-walled album is a slap in the face to any fan with decent ears who spent their hard-earned money on it. If you expected any fan since 1996 to not be offended by this insult, you were mistaken. And this may appear more as a slap in the face because one was under the assumption that the loudness war was the product of major record labels. The fact that Garbage did this to their own record released in their sole control on their own record label, willingly, while giving their undivided support to Emily Lazar - ergo disregarding the fans who took issue with Bleed Like Me in the process - one couldn't help but feel slighted even more than usual. It was not Warner, not Geffen, nor A&E who were responsible for this. It was Garbage themselves. And it stings. Also, the point made about old punk albums was redundant. Technology back then in most studios was nowhere near today's standards. The Sex Pistols album sounds the way it does because it was recorded in studios with no more than £5,000 of equipment in them. Nothing to do with the mastering process at all.
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Post by Lick The Pavement on May 26, 2012 22:02:05 GMT -5
Why do you people even care? I enjoy the songs. No need to bicker about petty things. That's a good point. You don't care about the quality of the mastering but a lot of other people clearly do. You find such matters trivial and to be of nit-picking scope, while others get so passionate about the issue that they've vowed to not purchase the next album if they see that Emily Lazar was involved in its mastering. But you don't care either way. So, surely, as actual fans, we should now make our judgements heard in such droves that the band finally listens to our requests for once again decently mastered Garbage albums. What would the mastering of the next LP matter to you? You don't give a toss either way. Others differ. People do that. Honestly, I'm not going to enter a store, look at a CD, see who mastered it and say "You know what, I don't like who mastered this CD, not buying it." I mean, the people who care about who mastered it and who'd rather just buy the CD/MP3's clearly out-weigh each other. The people who have degrees in sound engineering or are sound genius's will clearly state a point about it, but most, if not all fans will buy the CD regardless. Any band/singer owes us a good CD. How many times have we heard Shirl say in her posts on FB or on her twitter how much she appreciates us. Not many bands/singers do that nowadays. Just like any retailer - you expect the best from their word of mouth. Granted, we spend the cash to help them, but we also want them to deliver great videos and tours, and merchandising and other sorts. As far as how it was mastered, I don't hear anything we haven't heard. Distorted loops and winding guitars with loud pounds is what Garbage essentially is. I honestly never heard of this 'war' till' about a week ago. It was never my first instinct to say "Hey, you know what, the process and mastering really irks me on these CDs". I'm just very thankful they even came out with more CD's after Beautiful Garbage, so maybe my bias is altered. However, I don't recall any type of 'war' like this from any band till' now, and I'm not sure why it's such a big deal. If you don't like the mastering, then don't buy the CD. iTunes provides CD quality previews, if you already bought the album, you should have just previewed the iTunes clips and batted an eyelash before buying the album, or even researched on who mastered the CD (if that's what makes you buy a CD).
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Post by badboyfriend on May 27, 2012 5:13:47 GMT -5
Trust me, there's albums worse off mastering wise. Like anything released since American Life by Madonna. All her albums are so loud it can hurt >.< Good albums which are insanely dynamicless.
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Post by Tornado on May 27, 2012 6:57:38 GMT -5
Why do you people even care? I enjoy the songs. No need to bicker about petty things. That's a good point. You don't care about the quality of the mastering but a lot of other people clearly do. You find such matters trivial and to be of nit-picking scope, while others get so passionate about the issue that they've vowed to not purchase the next album if they see that Emily Lazar was involved in its mastering. But you don't care either way. So, surely, as actual fans, we should now make our judgements heard in such droves that the band finally listens to our requests for once again decently mastered Garbage albums. What would the mastering of the next LP matter to you? You don't give a toss either way. Others differ. People do that. And, as fans, a band does owe us a certain amount of decency in return for the millions of dollars we've provided to them. We've purchased millions of their records and concert tickets and thus provided them with a lifestyle they would have never received otherwise. That much is obviousness. It has always been a symbiotic relationship. One cannot exist without the other, therefore mutual respect is a necessity. A brick-walled album is a slap in the face to any fan with decent ears who spent their hard-earned money on it. If you expected any fan since 1996 to not be offended by this insult, you were mistaken. And this may appear more as a slap in the face because one was under the assumption that the loudness war was the product of major record labels. The fact that Garbage did this to their own record released in their sole control on their own record label, willingly, while giving their undivided support to Emily Lazar - ergo disregarding the fans who took issue with Bleed Like Me in the process - one couldn't help but feel slighted even more than usual. It was not Warner, not Geffen, nor A&E who were responsible for this. It was Garbage themselves. And it stings. Also, the point made about old punk albums was redundant. Technology back then in most studios was nowhere near today's standards. The Sex Pistols album sounds the way it does because it was recorded in studios with no more than £5,000 of equipment in them. Nothing to do with the mastering process at all. Why do you keep editing the Wikipedia page with your loudness war? Are you obsessed? You don't have a life beyond loudness war? You don't see that your opinions are reverted everytime? Wikipedia don't allow personal opinions, just facts. You may not like how the album was mastered. Fine. But don't try to spread your propaganda.
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Post by homeostasis on May 27, 2012 13:23:47 GMT -5
^ My edits are facts based up with sources, properly ID'd and with logic and merit. The only reason you and one other guy keep reverting it is because you're accusing us of having some sort of biased perception. Some of you have even gone so far as to suggest we're all the same person with some sort of grudge to bare. I count 8 fans in this thread who have been critical of the album so far, among 3 pages of other users telling the rest of us to get over it and be grateful little puppies. Do you think we're all making this up? There is a serious issue with the mastering on this album, and Garbage seem oblivious. It's among the worst I've ever heard. Listen to the chorus guitar on Blood For Poppies objectively and tell me there isn't an issue with poorly performed EQ'ing. It's far too sharp and distorted. As time goes on, the issue will gain more and more stature. There'll be more and more sources to back it up, and the section on the Wikipedia article will only grow larger, containing more and more detail. You'll revert, and I'll revert your revert. It's funny how people differ that way.
And there sure as heck are people out there who won't buy an album because of who mastered it. Not Your Kind Of People was my final straw with Emily Lazar and The Lodge. There's a new Alanis Morissette album coming out in a couple of months that was mastered by Lazar, so I will not be buying it. I have every album and single released by her at this point, but I will not be spending another €18 on a CD I'll listen to once and then regret buying. That goes for any artist who will have their future albums mastered by Lazar. I probably won't even bother illegally downloading them. That's how strongly I feel on the issue. And I'm all too aware of others who feel the same.
It's not too hard to notice something's going on nowadays. Everyone has access to the internet now. How many millions of people are aware that Garbage have a new album out? It sold 50,000 copies last week, compared with the 150,000 sold by BLM on Week 1. Have you ever considered the possibility that the bad mastering on BLM is what's keeping at least some of these people away now? Because that will sure be the case next time 'round for me. Garbage fans aren't of the same ilk as bloody Justin Bieber fans. We don't need the music forced down our throats to be aware of its existence.
Regards.
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Post by Tornado on May 27, 2012 13:33:44 GMT -5
Probably the band wanted that BFP chorus to be "too sharp and distorted". They know best.
Are you paid to do that? Why you can just ignore it? It affects you directly? Now it's too late to do something: the album is out. Better give up because it's just a waste of time.
And with your bad publicity (true or false, it doesn't matter) you expect them to sell more? What kind of fan you are? Most people don't care about mastering. They don't even know what mastering is.
Garbage sold less albums this time because: 1. they had a 7 years break; 2. music "piracy" (higher now than 2005); 3. they have their own label with limited resources for promotion and distribution; 4. rock is not popular these days. Too much pop music on charts.
But even if they sell less, they gain more money because they have their own label and they don't have to pay fat bastards from major labels. Plus they tour in the whole world.
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Post by Tornado on May 27, 2012 14:01:29 GMT -5
One more thing: you did original research on Wikipedia. Original research is prohibited by Wikipedia. Nobody will accept your made-up criticism. Wikipedia does not publish original thought: all material in Wikipedia must be attributable to a reliable, published source. Articles may not contain any new analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to advance a position not clearly advanced by the sources. sourceYou did exactly that: using some (poor) sources you did a short essay about your hate against NYKOP mastering. Give up!
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Post by garbagemty on May 27, 2012 16:06:00 GMT -5
^ My edits are facts based up with sources, properly ID'd and with logic and merit. The only reason you and one other guy keep reverting it is because you're accusing us of having some sort of biased perception. You'll revert, and I'll revert your revert. It's funny how people differ that way. Regards. You are crazy and it's very unfair for Garbage, I will always delete your shit from Wikipedia.
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Post by homeostasis on May 27, 2012 16:54:48 GMT -5
That content is not original research. This forum topic is used as a source for the sentence regarding "criticised by numerous fans." And as I already point out, there are indeed numerous other board members here who have similar opinions. The source is acceptable within the parameters of the context in which it is used.
The only reason you're deleting the content is because it's of a critical nature, and you want only good publicity at this stage. You admittedly know nothing about mastering, and yet you think you're entitled to determine what information regarding mastering is included on their Wikipedia article? You're a fanboy deleting what you know nothing about, simply because it's negative. Wikipedia administrators do not take kindly to fanboy's disrupting the content of an article. Wikipedia is not free advertising space for any band. And there are plenty of means of sorting this out. This game shall soon be over.
Toodles.
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Post by garbagemty on May 27, 2012 16:54:52 GMT -5
check out Wikipedia, I deleted your craziness again
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Post by Hangin' With The Bichard on May 27, 2012 16:57:25 GMT -5
Hmmm...this is all very interesting. I've just read the Loudness War page on Wikipedia for the first time.
I know very little about mastering but I must admit I remember noticing how loud BLM was when it was released. It also seemed to be missing many of those little nuances and touches that had made previous Garbage records so special. However, the album was meant to be a more straightforward rock record so how much it actually had to do with the mastering I honestly don't know.
If I were to have to choose between an album being louder, or the sound being of a higher quality and more detailed I'd go for the latter every time though. You can always turn it up using the volume knob!!!
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Post by Tornado on May 27, 2012 16:57:58 GMT -5
That content is not original research. This topic is used as a source for the sentence regarding "criticised by numerous fans." And as I already point out, there are indeed numerous other board members here who have similar opinions. That source is deemed acceptable within the given parameters of the context in which they are used. This is exactly original research. You (anonymous user) wrote something on Wikipedia and gave the source this forum (not reliable source). You don't have a credible source that says black on white that NYKOP has mastering problems. If e.g. The Guardian would write an article about the bad mastering of NYKOP, THEN you could reference their article for Wikipedia. Otherwise it's only your opinion based on this forum and few other unrelated sources. For you. You could be banned from Wikipedia. I'm not kidding.
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Post by homeostasis on May 27, 2012 17:02:47 GMT -5
This is exactly original research. You (anonymous user) wrote something on Wikipedia and gave the source this forum (not reliable source). You don't have a credible source that says black on white that NYKOP has mastering problems. If e.g. The Guardian would write an article about the bad mastering of NYKOP, THEN you could reference their article for Wikipedia. Otherwise it's only your opinion based on this forum and few other unrelated sources. You clearly didn't even read the other references provided. The interview with Billy Bush confirms straight from the horses mouth that the album is compressed. And that's the key point of the section, that the album has been compressed and thusly suffers from 'dynamic range compression'. D'oh! You are the people section blanking an article without ever providing a valid reason.
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